How marketing can make or break a community

Yolanda Muchnik:
Why should your properties invest in making videos? Why are marketing and retention synonyms? And what should you avoid to ensure your community doesn't break down? Well, today we answer these questions and more. I'm Yolanda Muchnik, your new podcast host. And I'm excited for my first episode, where I chat with Barbara Savona, the CEO and founder of Sprout Marketing Multifamily, a full marketing platform and consulting company that caters to multifamily housing with a goal to get back to the basics of running your business and doing it in style. Today, we're talking about how marketing can make or break a community.

Yolanda Muchnik:
Barbara, welcome to the show.

Barbara Savona:
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Yolanda Muchnik:
Well, we're definitely happy to have you at the show. We first reached out because we had a previous guest earlier in the year, Lori Hammond from MRD Apartments and she recommended you and she had nothing but wonderful things to say about you. And then coincidentally, just last week, another guest, Mike Brewer, also recommended you. So definitely your expertise is coming highly recommended from multiple sources.

Barbara Savona:
Well, I am very flattered and I will try not to disappoint today.

Yolanda Muchnik:
Wonderful. You're definitely doing great work over at Sprout Marketing and for our listeners who do not know about Sprout Marketing and yourself, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and Sprout and what you're doing with multifamily marketing over there?

Barbara Savona:
Absolutely. So I typically jump right into what I'm doing with work, but I said, I'm going to do it opposite this time. So on a personal side, I have been married for 20 years. My husband built us just a few years ago, a house, a shipping container house. So out of three shipping containers. So my husband, myself, our Doberman and six chickens live out in the middle of the Texas hill country. So that's a little bit just about me personally. Sprout is a company that I co-founded with my best friend, lifelong best friend, Lauren, a little over 11 years ago. And I'll share a little bit more about my reasons.

There's really three core reasons. Home has always been so important to me. My parents both are not from this country, so I'm a Germex. My mom is German. My dad is Mexican. And so when they first moved here and I was a baby, we experienced everything from low income housing to kind of moving up the ranks, so to speak, but home was always such a central part. So home means a lot to me. And I understand that housing means everything to people, no matter whether they're in low income housing or they're in luxury homes. We still have the same goals.

My second reason is I was thrust into being a property manager at a young age and I actually took it on. I like to take things on, multiple things all at a time. So I was newly married, very young and also a new property manager. And so I empathize a lot with the role that property managers have.

And then I love marketing. I love the idea that something so small, the change of a color, the change of a sound can change how we experience the world. And so to me, this was a way to combine three passions of mine: home, property management and then also marketing.

Yolanda Muchnik:
I love it. And then you mentioned you started with a long time friend. Was it kind of like the right time, right fit? What gave you that oomph to start Sprout Marketing when you did?

Barbara Savona:
Yeah, absolutely. So it was timing, definitely. So in the year that I decided to, I was working for Rent Media Solutions and I loved the company. My husband and I, and my family all went to visit my grandparents in Germany. They live in a small village, they have a farm. So at night I would go sit outside on the roof of their barn and it was just dark, nothing but the stars. And I feel like whenever the mind is quiet, it's almost like it can play, it can get creative again. And so I always knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur, my parents are entrepreneurs, but it was at that time that I thought I just don't want to go back to trying to climb the corporate ladder that is leaning on somebody else's building. I just didn't want that. I don't know. It was just not what I wanted for my life. And I felt like, what better time?

So I talked to my husband about it. Thankfully his business had been established at the time. So I saved up enough money that we could for about three to six months just launch the business. I launched it alone. When I first launched, I actually kind of started with a friend from Rent Media Solutions, but it was very not official. Six months in, I was completely swamped. My original partner had decided to go back to school, go to a different career. And my best friend and I were just having a conversation talking. And we said, you know what? We are opposites in everything in life. We used to joke, like if we could combine, we'd be the perfect woman. So we would try to help each other, however we could.

So I convinced her. She had always had a very steady job and really did not come from an entrepreneurial family. I convinced her to take the leap in with me. We made it official in 2010. The name Sprout came from again, I love plants. I love everything green. And I love the idea of something so small, this little seed or sprout being able to become something really big. So I also wanted to have the ability to launch into other markets, which is still a plan of mine. So yeah, that's kind of the story of the company. The friendship was born. I mean, we've been friends, best friends for 25 years and then Sprout, the name just to me, it said a lot. And I thought if it doesn't work, I'll open a plant shop and it'll be recycled, which I still might do one day.

Yolanda Muchnik:
You talk about eventually going into other industries or other areas potentially, but for Sprout Marketing today, who are you really targeting? Who are your buyers?

Barbara Savona:
Did? Yeah, so we get a lot of regional managers that sign their communities up and I don't ever want to turn business away, but Sprout as a whole, we are for the property managers. So if we can connect and sell to them individually, that's what we like because the buy-in is there. So that's who I prefer to really connect with. And what we found is that most property managers, they want to be really good at their job. They're just so overtaxed that they can't do it all, even though they want to. And so what I think of our program is almost like that little hack for marketing. I don't claim to solve all of their problems. We have so many great vendor partners, but in the world of marketing, I always say, we can get to you 90% there. So the last 10, you're just taking it across the finish line. You look like the hero. It's your win. That's what I want it to be. I want it to be for the property manager.

Yolanda Muchnik:
That's key. And it's the buy-in at the individual property manager level. I like that. When the property manager comes to Sprout and is looking for that assistance, what are some of the business results they're hoping to achieve from partnering with you? And are you tracking this in a consistent way? Or how are you measuring success ultimately for your customers?

Barbara Savona:
Our program has several components. So for the social media aspect, absolutely. When you think about how we like to track things, we definitely can see increased engagement, followers, leases, leads, and things like that. For our core program, which is the membership, really the two values that we're delivering, kind of go back to my garden analogy. So I think of all the little things that they're doing with sprout as these tiny seeds that they're going to spread them and they will not see the result immediately. It's going to take work. I always say, we're not for the lazy property manager. We're for that property manager that wants to deliver really great results. And so the more that they cultivate what they're doing, so we help them with their event flyers, their outreach marketing designs, their branding packets. We help them with their social media. And so yes, basically, they have to implement it and then see the results over time. And those that consistently do it, the biggest benefit I have to say for them is that they just save time.

So one of the biggest things our managers say, and I think to me, the biggest testament of our service is we have managers that pay for our service out of pocket. They'll say my ownership won't approve it. I know. And they'll say my ownership won't approve it, but I use Sprout at my last community. I don't know how I would do it without you guys. And I don't want to. And so we do a little kind of special deal for those out of pocket payers. But to me, that's the testament is again, we're trying to help you save time and energy so you can spend your tasks and your time on those tasks that only you, as the manager can do.

Yolanda Muchnik:
Exactly. That's amazing to have that value where they're willing to pay out of pocket. And that issue of time for property managers has come up more and more, especially recently. In this new work from home environment as well, there's just more for them to do. And so to offload some of that work to a company like Sprout, I think that's incredibly valuable. So when we're talking about your customers, when we're talking about property managers, are there any marketing initiatives and resources you provide that have consistently shown the most impact for them and are standouts, so to speak in the different programs that you could implement?

Barbara Savona:
I think social media right now is just, it's where people are spending their time. All of the stats show that. So that's a really big place. And if I would even drill it down even more specifically, reels, TikTok videos, you just get an engagement and a reach that you just cannot get in any other way. So to me, that's a huge opportunity. It's not an easy learning curve. A lot of people, even with Zoom for the last two years are still camera shy, but it is a huge opportunity. You just think about it. It's like a 15 to 32 second free commercial for your community, but it does take a little personality and just a little bit of confidence. So I would say that.

Also I'm seeing small events, resident events. I was just on a blog earlier on a forum for property managers frustrated with people not attending large events. I think people are still in this kind of like a weird space right now. So I don't see that 100% going away. I feel a lot of grab and go events that make you feel like you're part of something without having to commit to being there. That's to me, something that's really huge.

And then another initiative is just following up with prospects. People don't follow up typically, we see that in the research. So just by following up, you're already getting a leg up on the competition, but then if you do a creative follow up that's memorable and that's what we really train and teach on, you just are upping the chances. And that personal touch, I feel anything with a personal touch that showcases personality, and that feels like people get an insight into the personality behind the community, to me, that's the ones that are having the biggest impact.

Yolanda Muchnik:
I like that. It's the personality of a community that helps attract. And touching on community, I feel like we might already know the answer to this question, but how important is community building within multifamily? Maybe touch on that a little bit.

Barbara Savona:
Absolutely. I think that what happens is we talk about it like it's an option. Is building community important? The reality is community is being built, whether we're actively playing a role in it, or we're passively allowing it to take place. You see that all the time. A community will develop a personality. And it's almost like, are you going to lead the charge as the property management company? Are you going to set the pace for what that personality is? Or are you just going to allow that to come about through reviews and through the most dominant personality there?

So when you think about that, that along with the fact that there is a loneliness epidemic, that people are more connected than never, but more isolated and alone. I think about those things, and just that factor tells me that there is a need for community. Is it the same that we've been thinking about like pizza parties? I don't know. I feel that is going to shift. I feel that there will be still some of that, but I think we're going to have to really step up and get creative in how do people want to interact with others that feels meaningful, but it also doesn't feel like they're in a situation where they're uncomfortable because social interaction is becoming something that more and more people are just uncomfortable with.

Yolanda Muchnik:
Yeah. And the whole aspect is different for each community, different for each building. It depends on the makeup of the residents. So it's not a one size fits all sort of situation.

Barbara Savona:
Exactly.

Yolanda Muchnik:
I like the point that the community is being built, regardless of your involvement, that, that kind of like in a meeting, the loudest voice often will overtake. And so you really need to be there to moderate and help development. In terms of the rural marketing place, do you see this tie to retention goals? Because building could community is all about attracting, keeping, retaining your residents, or is it more of an indirect alignment for marketing?

Barbara Savona:
I see marketing as one in the same with retention. So to me, when we talk marketing in our company, we talk about marketing that drives leases, leads, traffic, all of that. Then we talk about marketing that retains all of that hard earned work. So to me, they're peanut butter and jelly. Like together they're like the awesome combo. And I think that sometimes we put on a marketing hat and then we take it off. And then we put on a retention hat and I think we should put on the exact same hat. Full circle marketing to me, if you say you're a certain type of community and I'm attracted to you, I come in and I experience that, then I'm going to want to stay and I'm going to tell others. And it becomes this very full circle approach that you don't have to work as hard because it's happening very naturally.

Yolanda Muchnik:
And do you see, like in terms of that for the property management company, putting that work in early, that it creates a waterfall effect?

Barbara Savona:
I do. So we are fortunate in some cases. We get to work with communities when they're in the concept phase, what are we going to be? What's our building going to be like? And what's incredible to me is there's this huge amount of energy that is spent with the development team and the branding team. Then you hire this marketing and leasing and manager team. And a lot of times these two do not communicate. And so all of this effort that went into, well, why did we do this many three bedrooms instead of this many two bedrooms, isn't fully communicated. So you get somebody in there that is almost speaking directly against what the original vision was. However I've seen it, where the opposite happens.

We worked with a great ... WC Smith and worked on their project, the collective separate buildings, very cool initiative, but they were able to really pass the baton from development to leasing. And when they did that, it was able to really carry it through. And so, yeah, I think that if it starts early, it's again, that thing of spreading those seeds. They're not all going to work because what you think about in development, there's so many scenarios that you have this ideal picture, it doesn't happen. But a lot will. And if you can communicate that, then they're just taking and leading the charge. So what we've seen is when you talk tangible results, even we've had some of the highest dollar sales of assets after the branding and the marketing has been complete when they're wanting to turn over and sell the asset. But that was because they had a great start to finish plan, everybody communicated, there was not a disconnect. And so to me, that's when marketing and retention really, really work. And that's where you see the ROI.

Yolanda Muchnik:
Yep. I like that. Talking about building the community, the ways to facilitate that handoff from development into leasing and marketing. Let's kind of take the flip side of that sort of such when things are maybe breaking down, when there isn't that sense of community.

Barbara Savona:
OK.

Yolanda Muchnik:
What are some things that marketers may have done accidentally that create that breakdown of the community?

Barbara Savona:
That's a great question because a lot of times, we talk about what is working and we don't stop to talk about what didn't work. So there's a few common mistakes. And I talk about them often because they've been happening for the last 10 years that I've seen and probably before. The first is I see people get stuck on a creativity cul-de-sac. They spend so much time trying to design the perfect logo or the perfect flyer or the perfect that they never get it out into the world. And so it's like a cul-de-sac. You go nowhere. You think you're going, you're wasting energy, but there's no off ramp. And so that's one, and that happens a lot. And really, is a logo important? Absolutely. But is it important enough to halt progress? No, it's not. I mean, you would be surprised. We'll send a logo and we'll send our top favorites and one that we're like, okay, there's no way they're going to like this. And that's the one they pick. Could they have all been successful? Absolutely. They could have because a lot of thought goes into it, but getting stuck there.

I also think doing too many things poorly so you're unable to execute well. People say, oh my gosh, I need to be on social media. So they get on Twitter, they get on Instagram, they get on Facebook, they get on Pinterest. Then they don't have systems in place. You need systems for all of that. Who's going to respond? Who's going to post? What are our acceptable processes for that? What can we post? Or even with marketing, they will put up an ILS and then not regularly check it, not update photos, things like that. So it's like very rookie mistakes, but it's not at the fault of not wanting to do well. It's just too many things and we're just pressed for time. So I always say, pick an avenue that you all already, like that your team already enjoy. So if they're great on Instagram, they're more likely going to post on Instagram because they enjoy the platform.

And then the last thing is the whole catfish. If you try to catfish your renter and you post these beautiful pictures, you come up with the best marketing campaign, but it's not actually aligned with the community. I mean, that's a short con. People will find out. Nowadays the renter can speak from the rooftops. And so to me, that's one of the biggest mistakes is really looking at a short term gain versus a long time reputation.

Yolanda Muchnik:
Catfishing a property market. Exactly. They'll find out, as you said. It's a short con and they'll find that out quickly. I also just personally love that term, creativity cul-de-sac. I'm going to steal that.

Barbara Savona:
Yes, please do.

Yolanda Muchnik:
So looking into that crystal ball, what do you see trending in 2022, as it relates to marketing and resident experience management? Is there anything on your radar that you think is just going to potentially blow up?

Barbara Savona:
I think that it's going to be a little bit of both in the sense of, I think there's going to be a coming back to some basics. I think that interaction with people is so underutilized and it's so rare now that when someone can communicate well written, verbal skills. When they can do that really well, I think that's going to stand out in the marketplace again. So when we talk about like training, for example, training your team to be a good writer, to respond to an email. Back to personalization, instead of looking at trying to get 200 leads, looking at it from a grassroots level, how many leads do we really need? How many people can we really personalize our message to?

So I see training on communication, the more digital that we become, the less that it's a natural thing. And it might sound old fashion, but you can be scrolling TikTok for an hour and you walk away with this dazed feeling of like, what did I just watch for an hour? And you can have a really meaningful interaction with someone that can leave you smiling for the rest of the day. So I think that because that feeling now is so rare, that training people on to do that and how to recognize the opportunities for that is going to be huge.

I also think that video creation is going to be the norm. So I think your average person is going to be able to create video that is compelling. And I don't see video slowing down just like photos were the big thing five years ago. We saw that coming. I don't see the video changing. So I think people have to get very comfortable with video.

And then I also think there's going to be a shift with this great lack of employees. I think people are going to look at marketing for hiring. Instead of just viewing it as an HR thing, I think they're going to have to build marketing campaigns around attracting people to their business. You have to win over now the employee and you have to make them ... It's not even just about money anymore for people. They're so fried, especially in our industry, that they want to feel valued and you're not going to just be able to put up a great tagline. It has to be some substance behind it. So I see full on campaigns for companies to stop and say, how are we attracting and retaining talent?

Yolanda Muchnik:
I like that. And I really think the first two items you said flow directly into the third, because one way you can support and attract new talent is to have a strong training and support system. Do you see with video turning that into a training material, even to teach your property managers? How do you create interesting 30 second videos that you can post?

Barbara Savona:
Yes, I really do. I feel that almost figuring out, something that we do internally for Sprout. So not necessarily for a client, but we recycle content. So one piece of video content can turn into 10 pieces of content. I don't see multifamily there yet. And I think that they can be and really thinking of themselves. So like, let's say for example, that somebody does a real showing the neighborhood and it's fun and it's creative. Now you turn that into a blog that is SEO rich, and that really talks about, hey, if you're looking to move from another city, you're almost positioning yourself as the expert on your city. That's how I see video partnering with multifamily. It's like it's allowing personalities to shine, but it's also partnering, letting us become the experts, not in our apartment, but experts in our city.

And to me, that would differentiate a community. If you tell me why I want to move to this city, if you know the name of the principal that my kid is going to go to and any awards that they won, and you can talk about that in a blog, in a leasing presentation, it goes back to that personalization. I really feel that those are going to be the things that are going to set a community and a management company apart. And 100%. I think training should be bite-sized. So when you're talking about talent, I'm taking a miniature MBA course in a business class and it's in five minute increments. And I love it because it's doable five minutes. I can't find 15 minutes, but 5 I can find. And so I think we've got to really switch up the antiquated way of teaching, training, connecting, because everybody is just on a shorter attention span.

Yolanda Muchnik:
I totally agree. I love the experts in the city aspect because that is true differentiation. Where your property sits in the city, there's a specific school system, there's a specific elementary school, middle school, high school.

Barbara Savona:
Yeah.

Yolanda Muchnik:
You should be able to speak to that and that really helps you define yourself more.

Barbara Savona:
Absolutely.

Yolanda Muchnik:
So one thing obviously we talk about is resident experience. It's the name of our podcast, and what's interesting is the core part is usually the same but each person has an individual riff on what resident experience means to them. So for you, Barbara, what does resident experience mean to you?

Barbara Savona:
To me, it really means the sum of all their interactions with your community and the team members. I think about it a lot, like a relationship, even like a marriage. So when you think about what makes a great marriage, when you think of a great marriage, you don't think of just the high points like the wedding day. That's such a tiny piece of it. Really a good marriage is a bunch of little, almost seemingly insignificant experiences that add up to a lifetime of a good marriage. And if somebody asks you, "Do you have a great marriage?" You wouldn't say, "Oh yeah, we had the best wedding" if you've been married for 20 years. You would say, "Yes, my husband does this or my partner does this." And it would be those things that would add up.

So that's how I think of the experience people get. We get so stuck on the gimmicks, the gifts and it's really, usually none of that. It's all the little tiny things in between. It's delivering on promises. And at the end of the day, I think about when somebody hears your community name or you as the manager are the brand, if they think of your name, how do they feel? How do they think? And at the core, that's what I think the resident experiences. It's the feeling because of everything that they've interacted with you throughout their journey.

Yolanda Muchnik:
It's so true when you read reviews or even really good reviews for a property. And they never say, "Oh, well my moving was just so excellent." It's usually like, "Oh, I love our property manager, Carol. She's always smiling and says hi to me every day."

Barbara Savona:
Yeah, they're so sweet. They always help so fast. It's exactly that. Nobody is like, they had this crazy Christmas party. I mean maybe, but it's not the thing that they will hang their hat on. So I agree with you. But I think we sometimes falsely think it is those really big things.

Yolanda Muchnik:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't ignore the big things, but it's really the small ones that drive it forward. All right, this has been a great conversation, but I do have one final question for you, but it's an easy one. So don't worry.

Barbara Savona:
Okay.

Yolanda Muchnik:
We love to get recommendations from our guests about other guests because we discover wonderful people like yourself that way. Do you have a couple people that you would think we should invite on this podcast who really get resident experience and resident experience management?

Barbara Savona:
I do. So Mark Hurley is the founder of Highland Commercial, and I've interviewed him on my podcast, Marketing Home, Marketing You. But I think for your specific podcast, he has a very unique take. He knows his audience, and he's really done things differently at the communities that he has built, that he has managed. And I think it's very, very unique. Plus, he's got a great accent. So he's so fun to listen to, and he is the best storyteller. So that's my first recommendation.

My second one is Dustin Lovingood with Greystar. And I hope I said his last name right. Dustin and I met many years ago. And had over a big portion of their marketing, but some people you just meet, and they have just an eye for aesthetics, they have a vision before there's anything on a piece of paper and Dustin is definitely that person.

Yolanda Muchnik:
Thank you, Barbara for joining us today. For our listeners, links to Sprout Marketing and the resources mentioned will be on the episode page at gozego.com.

Barbara Savona:
Thank you.